Archived:PlanB: Difference between revisions

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B for Baltic, not to be confused with Balkan.

B for Baltic, not to be confused with Balkan. A plan to circumnavigate the Baltic Sea, stopping halfway around, at St Petersburg, for the White Nights Festival.

White nights 2015 runs 23 May - 10 June. Or 11 June - later. Or 22 June - 25 June (that's the film festival anyway?). Ballet and Opera apparently runs 28 May - 27 July? Scarlet sails are allegedly June 23?

White nights 2015 runs 23 May - 10 June. Or 11 June - later. Or 22 June - 25 June (that's the film festival anyway?). Ballet and Opera apparently runs 28 May - 27 July? Scarlet sails are allegedly June 23? http://www.balletandopera.com/?festival=28&page=catalog will have tickets.

~~We should be able~~ to ~~avoid Rev~~'s ~~wedding~~ on ~~July 25th~~.

So, Plan: A trip from June 13 - June 28, with much of the second week in St Petersburg.

Helsinki - Stockholm: daily ferries, or overnight ones.

So, working backwards:

* Sunday 28th: Arrive back in Harwich (06:30), maybe spend time in East Anglia or London, at some point part ways.

* Saturday 27th: Leave Hamburg at 10:46, arrive in Amsterdam 17:00 for dinner, then overnight ferry to Harwich (departs 21:30 from Hoek van Holland). Alternately add another day in Amsterdam, there's cool stuff there.

* Friday 26th: Arrive in Copenhagen early in the morning (like before 7 - arrive malmo 05:45 and then there are half-hourly trains). Leave Copenhagen at 15:42, arrive Hamburg at 20:16. Alternately 11:42, 09:42 or 07:42. Stay in Hamburg.

* Thur 25th: Day in Stockholm (arr 06:10), overnight train to malmo (dep 21:25).

* Wed 24th: Day in Helsinki, then 17:02 train to Turku and overnight ferry to Stockholm. Or a direct ferry leaving at 17:00 (arriving at 9:30 rather than 6:30).

* Tue 23rd: Last day in St Petersburg, then high speed train to Helsinki. Last one is the 20:25 arriving 23:01 (or possibly 22:01, DST shennanigans). Spend night in Helsinki. Alternately, morning train to Helsinki on the 24th (11:25 arrive 14:01), particularly if the 23rd really is scarlet sails day.

And working forwards:

* Friday 12th: Non-London folks make their way to London in the evening.

* Saturday 13th: Eurostar to Brussels (depart 08:57, arrive 12:08). Lunch in Brussels, then Thalys to Cologne (13:28 - 15:15). Evening in Cologne, then 22:28 train to Prague

* Sunday 14th: Day in Prague (arrive 09:27), overnight train to Krakow (dep 22:26)

* Sunday 15th: Day in Krakow (arr 06:31), overnight train to Lviv (dep 21:24)

* Monday 16th: Day in Lviv (arrive 06:03 or 07:15 on alternate days), overnight train to Kiev (dep 23:28 or thereabouts)

* Tue 17th: Day in Kiev (arrive 07:15ish), overnight train to Minsk (dep 22:25). Alternately, skip Kiev, leave Lviv 19:48 and arrive Minsk 09:14 - this train runs on alternate days only, probably on odd numbered ones.

** We could put the extra day in anywhere in that case - I'd (Lmm) suggest Cologne.

* Wed 18th: Day in Minsk, overnight train to Kanliningrad (dep 23:23, how significant)

* Thur 19th: Kaliningrad (arr 11:29), have lunch, 13:14 train to Vilnius (arr 18:45). Option of overnight train to St Petersburg (depart 19:50), or stay in Vilnius

* If we stayed in Vilnius, make our way to Riga on, like, a bus or something. 18:35 train from there to St Petersburg.

* Fri 19th (or Sat 20th): Arrive (10:25) in St Petersburg, stay there until Tue 23rd, or early morning of Wed 24th.

Things that I have ruled out as impractical:

* Estonia

* The Rostock train ferry

So, ~~Plan~~: ~~A trip from June~~ 13 - ~~June 28~~, ~~with much~~ of the ~~second week~~ in St Petersburg.

Outstanding questions /todos, in order of approximate importance/urgency:

* Is this even the right dates to go see white nights / scarlet sails? If the scarlet sails stuff really happens on the 23rd, profit.

** My (Lmm) feeling is that Friday - Wednesday morning is enough time to spend in one place. But if we want more time in St Petersburg it would be possible to straighten out the route out.

* Are we happy to go to these places?

** Ukraine is big and Lviv is on the west end of it, so I (Lmm) feel it will not be very perilous, but some might feel even entering the country is too far, in which case we should take the Krakow-Minsk train instead (I think that one exists).

* Is Riga worth the faff? I (Lmm) vote no. FWIW we still pass through Latvia so in some sense tick that box either way.

* Assuming the Lviv-Minsk train runs on the Tuesday and not the Monday (depends on first question), choose where to spend our "spare" day:

** Kiev? - we otherwise wouldn't go there at all. Pretty cool, may involve mild peril

** Cologne? - we'd otherwise just have a few hours there. My (Lmm's) preference.

*** Option: Take the overnight ferry outbound (leaving on Friday evening) rather than the Saturday morning Eurostar, then have some of Saturday in Amsterdam or stay the night there, heading to Cologne in the evening or on Sunday morning.

*** Another option: rather than an extra day, take the very early Eurostar, getting us to Cologne at 13:15 or thereabouts. Would mean non-London folk definitely have to spend Friday night in London.

* Brussels? - we'd otherwise just have a couple of hours there

** An extra day in Prague, Krakow or Lviv?

* Is there anywhere we want to spend more time on the way back?

** Bear in mind if the scarlet sails are the 23rd then we're time-constrained.

*** I (Lmm) would be happy to arrive back on Monday morning, giving us an extra day.

*** It's possible to skip Helsinki and take a direct ferry to Stockholm from St Petersburg.

* We get very little time in Amsterdam (a few hours) - IMO (Lmm) there're certainly things there to occupy us for a day. OTOH it's an easy place to visit another time.

** Not a lot of time in Hamburg - basically just staying the night there. I (Lmm) have no particular interest in staying longer.

** My instinct is that ~6:30-15:42 is plenty of time in Copenhagen.

* Who's going?

** Lmm

* Pick hotels for the nights we're not on trains. St Petersburg 19th-24th (possibly 23rd-24th in Helsinki, possibly 18th-19th in Vilnius and on train 19th-20th), Hamburg 26th-27th, and if we don't go to Kiev, one night on the way out (e.g. Amsterdam or Cologne). I suggest finding cheap places on Agoda.

* Obtain Russian and Belarusian (sp?) visas - may have to wait until closer to the time. Hope UK doesn't leave the EU before the trip.

* Book trains 92 days in advance.

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 __NOTOC__
-B for Baltic, not to be confused with Balkan.
+B for Baltic, not to be confused with Balkan. A plan to circumnavigate the Baltic Sea, stopping halfway around, at St Petersburg, for the White Nights Festival.
-White nights 2015 runs 23 May - 10 June. Or 11 June - later. Or 22 June - 25 June (that's the film festival anyway?). Ballet and Opera apparently runs 28 May - 27 July? Scarlet sails are allegedly June 23?
+White nights 2015 runs 23 May - 10 June. Or 11 June - later. Or 22 June - 25 June (that's the film festival anyway?). Ballet and Opera apparently runs 28 May - 27 July? Scarlet sails are allegedly June 23? http://www.balletandopera.com/?festival=28&page=catalog will have tickets.
-We should be able to avoid Rev's wedding on July 25th.
+So, Plan: A trip from June 13 - June 28, with much of the second week in St Petersburg.
+Helsinki - Stockholm: daily ferries, or overnight ones.
+So, working backwards:
+* Sunday 28th: Arrive back in Harwich (06:30), maybe spend time in East Anglia or London, at some point part ways.
+* Saturday 27th: Leave Hamburg at 10:46, arrive in Amsterdam 17:00 for dinner, then overnight ferry to Harwich (departs 21:30 from Hoek van Holland). Alternately add another day in Amsterdam, there's cool stuff there.
+* Friday 26th: Arrive in Copenhagen early in the morning (like before 7 - arrive malmo 05:45 and then there are half-hourly trains). Leave Copenhagen at 15:42, arrive Hamburg at 20:16. Alternately 11:42, 09:42 or 07:42. Stay in Hamburg.
+* Thur 25th: Day in Stockholm (arr 06:10), overnight train to malmo (dep 21:25).
+* Wed 24th: Day in Helsinki, then 17:02 train to Turku and overnight ferry to Stockholm. Or a direct ferry leaving at 17:00 (arriving at 9:30 rather than 6:30).
+* Tue 23rd: Last day in St Petersburg, then high speed train to Helsinki. Last one is the 20:25 arriving 23:01 (or possibly 22:01, DST shennanigans). Spend night in Helsinki. Alternately, morning train to Helsinki on the 24th (11:25 arrive 14:01), particularly if the 23rd really is scarlet sails day.
+And working forwards:
+* Friday 12th: Non-London folks make their way to London in the evening.
+* Saturday 13th: Eurostar to Brussels (depart 08:57, arrive 12:08). Lunch in Brussels, then Thalys to Cologne (13:28 - 15:15). Evening in Cologne, then 22:28 train to Prague
+* Sunday 14th: Day in Prague (arrive 09:27), overnight train to Krakow (dep 22:26)
+* Sunday 15th: Day in Krakow (arr 06:31), overnight train to Lviv (dep 21:24)
+* Monday 16th: Day in Lviv (arrive 06:03 or 07:15 on alternate days), overnight train to Kiev (dep 23:28 or thereabouts)
+* Tue 17th: Day in Kiev (arrive 07:15ish), overnight train to Minsk (dep 22:25). Alternately, skip Kiev, leave Lviv 19:48 and arrive Minsk 09:14 - this train runs on alternate days only, probably on odd numbered ones.
+** We could put the extra day in anywhere in that case - I'd (Lmm) suggest Cologne.
+* Wed 18th: Day in Minsk, overnight train to Kanliningrad (dep 23:23, how significant)
+* Thur 19th: Kaliningrad (arr 11:29), have lunch, 13:14 train to Vilnius (arr 18:45). Option of overnight train to St Petersburg (depart 19:50), or stay in Vilnius
+* If we stayed in Vilnius, make our way to Riga on, like, a bus or something. 18:35 train from there to St Petersburg.
+* Fri 19th (or Sat 20th): Arrive (10:25) in St Petersburg, stay there until Tue 23rd, or early morning of Wed 24th.
+Things that I have ruled out as impractical:
+* Estonia
+* The Rostock train ferry
-So, Plan: A trip from June 13 - June 28, with much of the second week in St Petersburg.
+Outstanding questions /todos, in order of approximate importance/urgency:
+* Is this even the right dates to go see white nights / scarlet sails? If the scarlet sails stuff really happens on the 23rd, profit.
+** My (Lmm) feeling is that Friday - Wednesday morning is enough time to spend in one place. But if we want more time in St Petersburg it would be possible to straighten out the route out.
+* Are we happy to go to these places?
+** Ukraine is big and Lviv is on the west end of it, so I (Lmm) feel it will not be very perilous, but some might feel even entering the country is too far, in which case we should take the Krakow-Minsk train instead (I think that one exists).
+* Is Riga worth the faff? I (Lmm) vote no. FWIW we still pass through Latvia so in some sense tick that box either way.
+* Assuming the Lviv-Minsk train runs on the Tuesday and not the Monday (depends on first question), choose where to spend our "spare" day:
+** Kiev? - we otherwise wouldn't go there at all. Pretty cool, may involve mild peril
+** Cologne? - we'd otherwise just have a few hours there. My (Lmm's) preference.
+*** Option: Take the overnight ferry outbound (leaving on Friday evening) rather than the Saturday morning Eurostar, then have some of Saturday in Amsterdam or stay the night there, heading to Cologne in the evening or on Sunday morning.
+*** Another option: rather than an extra day, take the very early Eurostar, getting us to Cologne at 13:15 or thereabouts. Would mean non-London folk definitely have to spend Friday night in London.
+* Brussels? - we'd otherwise just have a couple of hours there
+** An extra day in Prague, Krakow or Lviv?
+* Is there anywhere we want to spend more time on the way back?
+** Bear in mind if the scarlet sails are the 23rd then we're time-constrained.
+*** I (Lmm) would be happy to arrive back on Monday morning, giving us an extra day.
+*** It's possible to skip Helsinki and take a direct ferry to Stockholm from St Petersburg.
+* We get very little time in Amsterdam (a few hours) - IMO (Lmm) there're certainly things there to occupy us for a day. OTOH it's an easy place to visit another time.
+** Not a lot of time in Hamburg - basically just staying the night there. I (Lmm) have no particular interest in staying longer.
+** My instinct is that ~6:30-15:42 is plenty of time in Copenhagen.
+* Who's going?
+** Lmm
+* Pick hotels for the nights we're not on trains. St Petersburg 19th-24th (possibly 23rd-24th in Helsinki, possibly 18th-19th in Vilnius and on train 19th-20th), Hamburg 26th-27th, and if we don't go to Kiev, one night on the way out (e.g. Amsterdam or Cologne). I suggest finding cheap places on Agoda.
+* Obtain Russian and Belarusian (sp?) visas - may have to wait until closer to the time. Hope UK doesn't leave the EU before the trip.
+* Book trains 92 days in advance.