Archived:NightOnTheGalacticRailroad/LmmStreamOfConsciousness

Stream of reasoning

Day 0, Friday: Dudes gather in and around London.
Day 1, Saturday: Train to Paris/Brussels/Cologne and a day there. Overnight train to, let's say Warsaw. We could get to Moscow by Monday morning on a direct train, but the trans-siberian doesn't leave until Tuesday evening.
- There is a Cologne-Moscow sleeper train
  - Yes there is; my point is that doesn't get us to Beijing any quicker, though we could take it if we want more time in Moscow
Day 2, Sunday: Warsaw, explore it, overnight train to Kiev (or Minsk)
Day 3, Monday: Kiev, explore it, overnight train to Moscow
Day 4, Tuesday: Moscow, explore it, get on the big train in evening
Day 10, Monday: Beijing, explore it, overnight train to Shanghai
Day 11, Tuesday: Shanghai, explore it very briefly, ferry at 2pm
Day 13, Thursday: Arrive in Osaka at 9am, uh, day in osaka
Day 14, Friday: Kyoto, maybe?
Day 15, Saturday: One glorious day in Tokyo, or something
Day 16, Sunday: Morning in Toyko, and fly home.

Um. Thinking about minimising necessary amounts of work-leave. Tuesday is the date with absolute rest around which the blocks must be arranged; if we work backwards and get from London to Moscow as quickly as is trainially possible, then that fixes our start point and allows the maximum amount of time to play with post-TSR. On that basis I (Smith) would be willing to sacrifice any of the pre-Moscow stops if that will speed things up, in order to allow a greater proportion of the presumed maximum duration to occur in the Orient. tl;dr I feel we should get out there as fast as we can and not piss about with seeing Eastern Europe

Let's see if there are any efficiency savings to be had from doing it in reverse:

Day 16, Sunday: Train to Cologne, then Brussels and Eurostar home; we have about 6 hours to spend in one or other on the way.
Day 15, Saturday: Get the 8AM train from Moscow, overnight to Berlin.
Day 14, Friday: Arrive in Moscow at ~6PM, spend the night there
Day 8, Saturday: Day in Beijing, train in the evening
Day 7, Friday: Bah. Ferry only arrives on a Thursday, leaving on Tuesday midday, so again we only get like 4 days in Japan this way.

Let's look at it another way: suppose we wanted to go to Japan and other places, how much holiday time would we need?

Japan, 5 weeks; China, 8 weeks; Russias, 10 weeks. Spare, 2 weeks. Total: Six months.
Day n, Sunday: Morning in Tokyo, fly home
Day n-1, Saturday: Let's say we're doing this at Comiket. Comiket!
Day n-2, Friday: Mickey Comikets early. Other people go do something cultural.
Day n-3, Thursday: Tokyo, and all its joys.
Day n-4, Wednesday: Kyoto! History!
Day n-5, Tuesday: Osaka! Accents!
Day n-6, Monday: Arrive Osaka, 09:30, rest weary selves, go to a hot springs or something.
Day n-8, Saturday: A little Shanghai in the morning, ferry at 13:00.
Day n-9, Friday: I'm going to say spend this in Shanghai, and stay night in Shanghai.
Day n-10, Thursday: Day in Beijing, sleeper to Shanghai.

Eek, the only good train runs tuesday to monday.

So, best option would be to extend the original plan above by a bit at the end. Constraints: if going out, train is tuesday -> monday, and ferry is tuesday from shanghai - so not much time in shanghai. If coming back, train goes wed -> mon (at 2:28pm, plausible flying time), ferry could arrive sunday (leaving japan on Friday). So a plausible itinerary would look something like:

Friday evening: Gather
Saturday hideously early morning: Planes to Japan
Sunday morning: Arrive in Tokyo, spend some time there and in Osaka.
Friday midday: Get ferry from Osaka
Sunday midday: Arrive in Shanghai, spend a day and a half or so there
Monday night (say): overnight train to Beijing, spend a day and a half there
Wednesday morning, 8AM: get the big train
Monday afternoon: Arrive Moscow. Lamers could at this point fly home, meaning they'd only need 2 weeks + 1 day off work; otherwise we could take the rest of the week slowly crossing Europe.

A modest proposal for training out and flying back by Smith

Day 1 (Sun) - Assemble in London
Day 2 (Mon) - to Cologne via Brussels
Day 3 (Tues) - to Moscow via Cologne-Moscow sleeper. NOTE: I have not checked whether this gets us into Moscow in time to board the TSR. I am assuming that it does.
Days 4-8 (Weds - Sun) - Miles and miles of godless fascist taiga
Day 9 (Mon) - Arrive Beijing, depart for Shanghai on the Beijing-Shanghai sleeper
Day 10 (Tues) - Arrive Shanghai, board ship for Osaka
Day 11 (Weds) - Osaka
Days 12-14 (Thurs - Sat) - Japan
Day 15 (Sun) - fly home

The Cologne-Moscow sleeper takes two days, so we'd need to leave on Sunday. (Well, that's not entirely true; if we really wanted maximum train density we could get an early morning Eurostar to Cologne, spend the day going to Warsaw by conventional train, then get the Warsaw-Moscow sleeper which only takes one night) I feel if we're leaving Monday/Sunday we might as well leave Saturday and spent a few days in interesting places, at least for those of us who're conventionally employed (options would either be getting a second day in Moscow, or taking a slower combination of sleepers that would give us days in Warsaw and Kiev - see my plan near the top of the page). Also note that the ferry doesn't arrive in Osaka until Thursday.

That's annoying re ferry - I (Smith) now see what you mean about this getting us annoyingly small amounts of Japan. In that case I will concede both your points and the resulting outline, I believe, becomes something like this:

A modest and viable proposal for training out and flying back by Smith

Days 1-4 (Sat - Tues) - Assemble in London, make our way to Moscow (in time to catch the Tuesday TSR) by $MEANS following $ROUTE.
Days 4-8 (Weds - Sun) - Miles and miles of godless fascist taiga
Day 9 (Mon) - Arrive Beijing, depart for Shanghai on the Beijing-Shanghai sleeper
Day 10 (Tues) - Arrive Shanghai, board ship for Osaka
Day 11 (Weds) - Miles and miles of akitsumikamiless democratic ocean
Days 12-14 (Thurs - Sat) - Japan
Day 15 (Sun) - fly home

That's basically identical to the topmost of my outlines above, right? Are we actually going to do this then? Awesome --Lmm

Broadly yes, actually. I (Smith) would recommend we draw the attention of the chat to this plan and see how quickly Philip shoots it down in flames^WW^WW^W raises some problem we haven't considered
 ....LOL

What about the silk route?

Just a very quick experiment in seeing if we can get to Japan earlier by avoiding the actual trans-siberian. Initially optimized for getting to Japan soon at all costs; add practicality later.

Day 0, Friday: late-night Eurostar to Brussels or Cologne. Urgh, but we need to depart Cologne at 09:28 the following morning. Maybe overnight ferry to Amsterdam is doable.
Day 1, Saturday: Train to Berlin, train to Warsaw, sleeper to Moscow
Day 2, Sunday: Riding on the train, arrive Moscow 19:54, in time to depart on the 'Tselina' or the slightly faster variant, if we plan our dates carefully.
Day 5, Wednesday: Arrive 11:57 or maybe 08:42 in Astana. Depart Astana on a Tuesday, or depart Almarty on Sat or Mon... urgh. Assume we somehow manage to leave at 15:10 on Tuesday, then
Day 6, Thursday: Arrive 08:50 in Ürümqi. Leave 12:25 towards Shanghai
Day 8, Saturday: Arrive in Shanghai early in the morning (well, 13:39)... just in time to miss the ferry. Urgh.

If we want to catch the ferry on Saturday, we need to...

Leave Xian by 21:02 Friday, or leave Lanzhou 13:16 Fri (T166/T163, arriving Shanghai at 11:15)
Leave Urumq at 14:54 Thursday, arriving in Lahzhou at 11:50 (T296) - totally doable if we can get to Astana for 15:10 on Tuesday.
We can get to Astana on Tuesday morning if we leave Moscow on Saturday night, 22:45 most Saturdays
Which means we need to leave Cologne by probably 11:28 - or leave Brussels at 09:28 - just after the earliest eurostar, urgh. Might be nicer to take the Eurostar on Thursday evening and catch the Cologne sleeper. Eurostar can get into Lille by 09:07 or Brussels by 09:42. Gah, this must totally be doable. Need to leave Warsaw 22:45, could leave Koln at 11:28 to get there at 23:05. Arrgh.

Conclusion: it is doable, and it does give us an extra 3 days in Japan at the cost of only taking Friday off. But it's a fair bit of faff - we'd need to align our dates correctly with the insane Moscow-Astana timetable (actually quite easy to do, just one out of four weeks would be bad), and this changing trains in China to go faster bsns sounds fraught with Peril. But it's worth considering.

I (Smith) would condone this "additional Japan" stuff. Exploring Shanghai having missed the ferry would be no hardship
 Well, if we miss the ferry that means no japan, basically.

Note; yes this is better than catching the "Vostock", which runs saturday-saturday.

The weekly ferry from vladivostock arrives fridays (leaving wed), so not terribly useful.

Aha! I think we don't have to go via Moscow. This could work.

~~Leave Astana 15:10 Tue. Or leave Almaty.. nah (can only leave mon or sat).~~. Leake Aktogay 10:49 wed anyway
~~Leave Novosibirsk 16:46 tue.~~ WAIT this is LIES.
Leave Yekaterinburg 19:55 Mon
Leave Minsk 16:05 Sat, OHHH YEEEAH
Or leave Warsaw 21:00 Fri
Would need to leave brussels at 7:28 fri urgh, 09:28 urgh for minsk. Or LEAVE PARIS AT 09:09 AND GET TO MINSK IN TIME FUCK YEAH
Wait, it's better than that, DB knows better trains than realrussia. We can leave paris at 21:39 on Fri (off the 18:02 eurostar) and get to Novosibirsk by 15:45 Tue.

Below is a mess :(

Leave	At	By	Arrive	At
Petropavlovsk	23:50 Mon (day 3)	345H	Astana	10:27 Tue (day 4)	Can get to Almaty for 05:57 if we leave a little earlier - maybe that does something?
Astana	15:10 Tue (day 4)	054Ц	Urumqi	08:58 Thursday (day 6)
Almaty	20:49 Tue (day 4)	352Т	Aktogay	09:11 Wed (day 5)
Aktogay	10:49 Wed (day 5)	054Ц	Urumqi	08:58 Thursday (day 6)
Urumqi	14:54 Thur (day 6)	T296	Lanzhou	11:50 Friday (day 7)
Lanzhou	13:16 Friday (day 7)	T166/T163	Shanghai	11:15 Saturday (day 8)
Shanghai	13:00 Saturday (day 8)	http://www.chinajapanferry.com/	Osaka	09:30 Monday (day 10)

Seems like no shenannigans can save friday. Note that the overnight ferry *does* join up with this - ferry thursday night at 23:15 from harwich, that is - so that might be the best way to do this if we wanted to.

Aha, I've made it join up with the Friday morning Eurostar: we can leave paris at 09:09

Let's try that east to west, for completeness

Leave Brussels on the last eurostar, 20:29 Sunday, or maybe the first one in the morning, 06:51 monday.
Leave Minsk 15:34 Sat, or 00:22 Sun to get into Brussels at 06:03 after no sleep monday. Or leave Moscow 8am sat or 16:50 Sat
Leave Astana 17:30 Wed, arriving 12:01 Sat. Or leave 11:00 on alternate thursdays to get to moscow at 15:25 (Potentially leave karaganda earlier or something)
Urk. Let's try leaving Urqmi 23:58 Mon, arriving in *almaty* 06:05 wed. From which we can get to Astana at 07:13 on Thur, by leaving 10:55 on Wed.
So let's say we leave Kobe on Friday at 10:30, arriving in Tianjin Sunday 14:00. Can chinese railways link us up? Don't think so.

Hmm

Leave London 17:04 Fri, arr brussels 20:03 Fri
Leave brussels 20:28 Fri, arr Ekaterinburg 18:17 Mon after lol
Get to Beijing 05:32 Sat. No good, need to leave it at 22:15 Fri.
If Bahn.de is right, need to leave Aktogay 01:50 on the wed, or Ulan-Ude at 03:09 wed
Therefore leave Urumqi at 11pm Mon - not happening from a 12:00 sun arrival. Likewise the TSR doesn't connect up, it leaves Beijing on Wed.

Mhm

Leave Novosibirsk 13:55 tue? Leave Almaty 13:45 wed, more usefully Then leave Iletsk 10:29 Mon, having left Moscow 22:50 on Sat. So no better off than before Or leave Semey 14:33 wed. Leave Astana 21:40 tue works via Semey. Leave Astana 19:15 tue works via Almaty.

Leave	At	By	Arrive	At
Aktogay	02:30 Thur (day 6)	951	Druzhba	10:10 Fri (day 7)
Alashankou	23:15 Fri (day 7)	5802	Urumqi	08:29 Sat (day 8)
Urumqi	11:33 Sat (day 8)	K596/K593	Lanzhou	11:43 Sun (day 9)
Lanzhou	13:16 Sun (day 9)	T166/T163	Shanghai	11:15 Mon (day 11)
Shanghai	11:00 Tue (day 11)	Ferry	Osaka	09:00 Thur (day 13)

Bah

Can we get to Shanghai in time for the Saturday ferry going via Mongolia? Science suggests: no.

Leave Shanghai at 13:00?
Leave Beijing 21:46 Fri
Leave Jining 11:36 Fri
Leave Erlan 13:30 Thur
Leave Ulan Bator 20:05 Wed
Leave Suche Bator 06:10 Wed
Leave Irkutsk 16:50 Tue or probably Mon, lol

Silk route taking 2 weeks

Leave Shanghai at 13:00 on Saturday 3
Leave Urumqui by Thursday 2
Leave Astana on 9th March at 21:05
Or leave Aktogay on 10th March at 10:54 (7:54 Moscow time)
Leave Novosibirsk at 16:52 on 8th March. And need to spend a night in Aktogay, urgh.
Would need to leave Moscow at 00:35 on the 6th, urgh.
Leave Tashkent 14:25 on the 8th, assuming Almaty is where we actually need to be on the 9th.
No, Almaty is where we need to be on the *10th*, leaving at 23:55. Awesome. (Arrive Urumqi at 8:58 on the 12th).
Still need to leave Tashkent on the 8th :(
Assuming I actually want to leave Shanghai on the 17th, when do I really want to enter china?
Spend 16th in Shanghai
Spend 15h in Xian?
Worst case, leave Urumqi 17:14 on 14th, arrive Shanghai 13:58 on 16th.
If I want that day in Xian, leave Urumqi night of the 13th, arrive Xian morning of the 15th.
So can totally get away with departing Almaty 23:55 on the 12th, arriving Urumqi 08:58 on 14th
So could leave moscow on 7th and kill time in Almaty
Or leave Tashkent 14:35 on the 11th, arriving Almaty 15:57 on the 12th
Leave Samarkand at 10:00 on the 11th, arriving Tashkent at 10:30
Or leave Urgench at 16:45 on the 10th, arriving Tashkent at 11:25
Leave Saratov on the 5th, urgh.
It's possible to leave Saratov on the 9th and arrive Tashkent 16:35 on the 12th. If we can then get to Almaty by 23:55 then all is good.
Could get the bus from Almaty to Urumqi, urgh.
Maybe leave Aktogay 10:54 on the 13th, arriving Urumqi 08:58 on 14th.
Leave Novosibirsk 16:52 on the 11th, have to stay night in Aktogay or somewhere.
Could leave Moscow on 8th or early hours of 9th. Not really very good though.
Really want to arrive Urumqi on 13th and spend it there, then 15th in Xian and 16th in Shanghai or something.
wait what, we *can* leave almaty on the 11th, and do just that.
And then leaving Moscow on the 7th and arriving Almaty on the 11th works beautifully.
Or maybe there isn't such a train. Time to phone up real russia.
Arrive Moscow Tuesday 1 morning
Arrive Almaty Saturday 2 morning, or Astana Friday 2 morning, hopefully.
Leave Almaty Saturday 2 evening. So does the every-other-day train line up?
- Nope, sucks. So could leave Moscow on Monday 5th, arrive Almaty on Friday 9th. Megasuck.
Arrive Urumqi Monday 2 morning, great, got basically a week in china.
Alternately leave Astana Tue, arrive Urumqi thur morning, then go fast through china.
If we leave *Astana* on the 9th, then arrive Urumqi on the 12th (having traveled via Almaty, but that's fine)
If we leave Almaty on the 10th at 23:55, then arrive Urumqi on the 12th at 08:58
There may or may not be a train leaving Astana at 21:05 on the 9th.
Either way, can get to Almaty on the 10th having left Moscow on the 7th: leave at 13:20, arrive Ekaterinburg at 17:38 on the 8th, leave at 18:03, arrive Karaganda at 00:05 on the 10th, then get to Almaty at 16:32.
- Or so as not to be changing trains in the very middle of the night, arrive Astana at 19:35 on the 9th ready for the 21:05 to Almaty.
- Will have arrived in Moscow at 06:43 (having left Kiev at 20:52), so leaving at 13:20 is not so bad.